Medieval recreation and the SCA

[usagi_tetsu]

As requested by Master Edwin after seeing a pic like this one

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/217/510217159_72cdf2e934_b.jpg

(I'm just to the left of the guy in the middle, grinning like the evil bastard I is, 'cause the guy in the middle is good and fucked) here is a thread with some info about my other weekend hobby: medieval recreation. I am a member of a group called the Society for Creative Anachronism (http://www.sca.org/) (commonly called the SCA), which is "a group dedicated to researching and recreating the Middle Ages in the present." In general terms, if they did it in the medieval period (basically from the time of Christ to 1600AD), someone in the SCA is trying to duplicate it. Well, everything except peasantry and the plague, all the unpleasant bits no one wants to experience. The fighting, while definitely the most visual and exciting of our recreation activities, is but one of hundreds of things we do on weekends. For me, personally, it's an excuse to dress up in funny clothes and beat people with sticks.

For some FAQs about SCA heavy combat:
-real armour, fake weapons. You have to have a minimum amount of armour (which is still quite a bit) or you DO NOT fight. Trust me, my one season of playing junior football in middle school was more damaging than my almost 10 years swinging rattan, as it is very safe.

-full force, full speed. This is not faked, it is a real sport (kinda hard to classify it as a martial art as it's not 100% real world accurate), and it does not tickle when you get hit in an unarmoured location.

-how do I get to swing sticks at people? Go to the SCA main website, find your Kingdom's website, and from there find a group local to you. Go to their weekly practice and ask to give it a try, as most groups have loaner gear and can get you onto the field without a large outlay of money.

-does it hurt? Yep. Not going to sugarcoat it, it does not tickle to get hit with a stick of rattan. However, the adrenaline payoff is IMMENSE, kinda like paintball, except more visceral. Plus, the stories you tell your coworkers about your latest set of bruises (and the attendant looks on their faces) are well worth it.


So, that's the basics, anyone got questions about what I didn't cover? Need any further linkage? How about some linkage to a bunch of YouTube (http://youtube.com/results?search_query=society+creative+anachronism&search=) videos?

[DeuceX]

Hahaha usagi, you bastard, you're trying to get me into yet another thing to waste my money on. It definitely sounds like a lot of fun. I've always been interested in making some medieval armor. Back in jr college I made up a mock leather roman studded vest for a project, I spent so much damn time on it (for an english class) and stayed up the whole last night doing it, didn't think I would get a good grade, and the professor was amazed. Not that it was a great piece of work but of how much time I spent on it. That and I had like twice the amount of leather I needed, killed my checking account haha.

Sounds like something I'd like to eventually get into, but as of now, I have neither the time nor money to get into it. I would like to beat Jerry to a pulp legally tho... pffft haha.

[Edwin]

That is great....only if I had more time....

How about some links for armor and ringmail for some of the members who want to make some?

[DeuceX]

I think that's the catch-all for the majority of the TOG... "time". That and that thing called "money".

Some links would be cool! ... on second thought check here Edwin!

http://www.costumepage.org/tcpmake2.html

[~kaos~]

I think I could get into raising a few mugs of mead/ale and then beating someone with a big 'ol stick!!

[DeuceX]

Just like you beat down the PWW Crusades? Haha.

MMMmmmm... medieval alcohol.

I bet shifty would be interested into getting in this, seein as how he likes to beat the crap out of people :Punch:

[Dances with Tribals]

I think I could get into raising a few mugs of mead/ale and then beating someone with a big 'ol stick!!

Ahahahahahahahaha that picture completely sums up bob and his statement!

http://khayman.osnn.net/threadpics/banstick_lg.jpg

[usagi_tetsu]

Dammit...

I had a huge post with a bunch of links going all over the 'net, and the bloody browser LOST IT!!! *feh* And now I have to go pack for my not-fun trip to Oklahoma this weekend. *feh, again* Promise folks, next week, I'll work on womping up a big post with lots of linkage in it.

[~kaos~]

Ahahahahahahahaha that picture completely sums up bob and his statement!
http://khayman.osnn.net/threadpics/banstick_lg.jpg
Woah, that looks exactly like me except....
~ my stick is much bigger
~ i don't have a beard
~ my hair isn't that long
~ i'm not balding
~ i don't have a little cheezy tat
~ i wouldn't stand in a big patch of posion sage lettuce
But yeah, other than that we could be twins!!

[Dances with Tribals]

Woah, that looks exactly like me except....
~ my stick is much bigger
~ i don't have a beard
~ my hair isn't that long
~ i'm not balding
~ i don't have a little cheezy tat
~ i wouldn't stand in a big patch of posion sage lettuce
But yeah, other than that we could be twins!!

I know its uncanny isnt it!

Anyway do you guys perform at rennisance fairs? Theres always one in st. Louis at wentzville. Ive only gone to it once but never watched anything on the parade field.

[Edwin]

LOL, that was a great post DwT!!!

[Edwin]

Usagi,

Something was on HBO last night about a Kid that does SCA type stuff. I watched the whole thing even though they were weirding me out.

I guess you probably laugh at those movies like Braveheart, Alexander, etc. now that you have a feel for the real thing? It seems like people wouldn't last more than a few seconds in real hand-to-hand combat with swords....100's of people fighting is such close proximity to each other seems like certain death....

I bet even Spitlbug would think a handgun is far more humaine!!!!

[Spitlebug]

^^ Well I wouldn't go that far. War is what it is. Todays inter-country war is more like a video game than war. It's like people have lost the nerve to get dirty. Getting dirty and in your face is how wars are truely won.

[Maniac117]

*Thus cueing the proud Infantrymen to wave.*
:woot5:

[Spitlebug]

I don't have a problem getting dirty. That's why I like to fist fight. :)

[MasterOfPupets]

I know alot of people into SCA (locally, they meet on my campus) and I've been tempted to see about joining. Honestly though, it comes down to just what everyone here has already said, time and money. Time I may be gaining soon, but money... ehh, not so much. Not like I have to be worried about being called a dork, get that as it is :p

As for the whole modern vs medieval war, I'd take medieval any day, I dislike the fuedal and manoral systems of government, but when it comes down to it, the wars back then may have been more prevalent, but they actually meant something. But, guns are just a standard evolution when you think about it. Bows and arrows and Catapults (or trebucets (sp) more likely in medieval Europe) to Guns and Missiles in modern time all just serve the idea of taking the soldiers out of combat.

[Dances with Tribals]

Meh war is hell no matter what century it is fought............though the Civil War was the coolest!!

[Spitlebug]

Nothing is worse than killing your own countrymen. Someone who might just as easily be your neighbour, a best friend, a relative...

I agree, that the civil war had to happen. The very idea of slavery offends me. I am glad the Canada had the foresight and wisdom to abolish slavery before the need for violence. This may have curbed our development financially and industrially, but it allowed for more social development.

You know what I find strange about war? The closer two countries are in geographic location, culture and development the more likely it is that they will go to war with each other. Even Canada and the U.S. don't recieve exception to this trend.

[Dances with Tribals]

Nothing is worse than killing your own countrymen. Someone who might just as easily be your neighbour, a best friend, a relative...

I agree, that the civil war had to happen. The very idea of slavery offends me. I am glad the Canada had the foresight and wisdom to abolish slavery before the need for violence. This may have curbed our development financially and industrially, but it allowed for more social development.

You know what I find strange about war? The closer two countries are in geographic location, culture and development the more likely it is that they will go to war with each other. Even Canada and the U.S. don't recieve exception to this trend.

I think the most famous example of how hellacious the Civil War was is the story of the Union father who shot his confederate son, then realized who he was and ran over and held him while yelling "Ive just killed my son!" Then he was shot and killed...........

[MasterOfPupets]

I agree, that the civil war had to happen. The very idea of slavery offends me. I am glad the Canada had the foresight and wisdom to abolish slavery before the need for violence. This may have curbed our development financially and industrially, but it allowed for more social development.


Hate to tell you, but the Civil War wasn't really about slavery. The only reason Lincoln freed the slaves (and he only did it in Confederate states. There were still slaves in several states still in the Union) was to undermine the south's financial structure. The war was nothing more than a political show of force essentially. Politicians from the south didn't believe they were getting recognized as much as politicians from the north. There was no great moral cause the north was fighting for, it was all about the power of the few.

[Dances with Tribals]

Hate to tell you, but the Civil War wasn't really about slavery. The only reason Lincoln freed the slaves (and he only did it in Confederate states. There were still slaves in several states still in the Union) was to undermine the south's financial structure. The war was nothing more than a political show of force essentially. Politicians from the south didn't believe they were getting recognized as much as politicians from the north. There was no great moral cause the north was fighting for, it was all about the power of the few.

It seems someone knows their history. Slavery has little to do with the actual war. Yes it was a reason they didnt like each other, but that was just used as an excuse. The main reason, like you stated, was the south didnt think they were being fairley represented by the government bc all the big industry and money was up north. So they tried to separate and create their own country, but they got the sackdown.

Though I do believe if Robert E Lee had accepted lincolns proposal the war would have ended wayyyy sooner than it did. I regard him as one of the the greatest if not THE greatest Tactical Generasl in history. He just ended up fighting for the more poorly provisioned and outnumbered side....................

[usagi_tetsu]

I know alot of people into SCA (locally, they meet on my campus) and I've been tempted to see about joining. Honestly though, it comes down to just what everyone here has already said, time and money. Time I may be gaining soon, but money... ehh, not so much. Not like I have to be worried about being called a dork, get that as it is :p

Yeah, most of us in the SCA started out as poor-ass college students, and only thru the extensive kindness of strangers (and strange people) did we make it onto a field regularly enough to accrue enough experience to win an actual tournament fight! But I digress. Check out your local group, bud, I'm sure they can at least get you onto the field at least once in loaner gear.

Okay, as promised, big post full of informative linkage:

None of the old chainmail tutorials I used are still up, but here (http://www.chainmailbasket.com/making_maille.php) is a decent one with a lot of the basics of making coils and links from bare wire.

For some basic info and patterns, I suggest these 3 websites here (http://theringlord.org/introtomailling/Index.htm), here (http://cgmaille.com/), and here (http://derakon.chainmailstore.com/inst.html). The first link, The Ring Lord (http://theringlord.com/), is also a purveyor of mailling supplies and other armour bits.

For more general medieval merchants, there's a great list called Merchant's Row (http://www.theringlord.com/sca/merchants), though if you're looking for plate armour in particular, I like this (http://spiers-saddlery.stores.yahoo.net/scagearandar.html) guy's gear and prices.

As for fighting itself, here (http://stps.steppes.org/newcomers/new_combat.aspx) is a good primer for what occurs on an SCA list field. Also, another page (http://www2.kumc.edu/itc/staff/rknight/Armour.htm) with a lot of good linkage that one of my friends maintains.


And, as always, if you're just bored and wanna watch people hit each other with sticks, a good search on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/) for "fighter practice", "sca fighter", "society for creative anachronism", "sca tournament", or "crown tournament" will give you lots and lots of footage of SCA fighters in action. Just try not to look at our footwear too closely...


*heh* SCA-themed Demotivational Posters (http://www.flickr.com/photos/justus1199/sets/72057594090475866) from one of my squire brothers who got knighted recently.

[DeuceX]

I want a medieval ale-helmet.

I imagine I'll probably look into when I have a more stable schedule, like going back to college.

[usagi_tetsu]

***UPDATE***

Sorry to resurrect a slightly older thread, but I thought this was something I could vent about:

SOME MOTHERFUCKER STOLE MY GODDAMNED ARMOUR!

Our local fighter practice is every Sunday afternoon when we have enough people show up to make putting on armour worthwhile. Last Sunday, after I flung paint, I went straight to practice, and only one guy showed up. So, not having used any of my medieval gear and too lazy to drag it all out of my Envoy, I left it all in there as I knew I'd be using it again this weekend. Yesterday, again not enough people showed up, but I was showing off my gear to my fellow troops as this was drill weekend, and I noticed my armour bag was missing. My 60lbs of metal, leather, and chainmail duffel bag of medieval-esque sport armour was fucking missing!

Now this is just frustrating. All told, I've put in less than $500 in my current rig - I'm working on a new set (which wasn't in the bag, thank god) that between the helmet and the body armour is already over $500 - so it's not really even going to be that financially difficult to replace what was in the bag. What kills me is that the armour is utterly useless to anyone who isn't me. As mentioned before, it's modern made, medieval-esque sport armour. It's not worth anything to a collector, and it's poorly enough made (and treated) that it's not a really great show piece. So it's worthless to anyone who doesn't do SCA medieval combat, and as it's medieval armour, you have to be pretty much my sized to use any or all of it. And as the SCA is not that big of a community, if you walk out onto a field wearing any of my stolen gear, me or one of my many friends is going to see it. The pain that would then follow is beyond the pale of imagination. No, the whole set is only worth anything to me, and only because I've been fighting in some of the pieces since I got into the sport about a decade ago.

Not only that, it was sitting right next to my main paintball gear bag and SCUBA tank, both of which weigh less than my armour bag, and both would draw far more resale value than the armour ever will. I haven't looked in the gear bag yet (a full inventory of my vehicle is scheduled for tonight), but a cursory inspection has shown everything is still there. Thank god for that.

I'm going down to the police station tomorrow to file a report, just so I can have an official record of what I've lost. Fortunately, I have lots of pictures of myself in that exact armour, so I've got plenty of proof. In fact, now that I think of it, I have more pictures of me in armour than I do of me NOT in armour. I'll also check with the insurance company, but I doubt I'll get anything for what's gone. My highest hope is that the fucktard pawns it locally (and the pawn shop keeps a record of who they bought it off of), and I can get it back that way, 'cause otherwise they'll either throw it in the trash or keep it to, I don't know, make drunken red-neck videos to put on YouTube. I'm just utterly fucking frustrated right now, and if I happened to find out who stole it, I'm not terribly sure I wouldn't beat them 'til they were physically disabled for the rest of their lives, even though I know I'd spend quite a stretch in prison for doing so.


Well, thanks for letting me vent guys, I'll post when I know more. Maybe even post up torture video links. *sigh*

[~kaos~]

WOW Wild Bill, that blows!!
I hate to think that someone in your SCA group is possibly suspect but who else would pass up paintball gear and/or a dive tank? Not only would the paintball gear have been easier to carry it would have been far easier to get rid of (sale or trade wise). One thing for sure tho.... they gotta be one dumb summa-bitch to steal something from a person that views beating someone with a stick as an enjoyable hobby.
On a side note, I would not only keep an eye out for the missing articles that were in the duffelbag but also the bag as well. Once the dumbshit figures out he cant use any of the items he might at least use the bag.

[usagi_tetsu]

Yeah, it fucking sucks balls. As one of my SCA friends said, there's no faster way to gut-punch a fighter than stealing their armour.

No, I really don't think it was anyone in the SCA. Why would they steal it? They could never use it or let it see the light of day. My best guess is that the neighbor's daughter's boyfriend (who's been messing around my porperty for months now and acting guilty as sin the last week or two) decided to try a little larceny, opened the garage door, then the nearest door on my Envoy, grabbed the first thing to come to hand (the armour bag), and ran, because we found the garage door standing open last Monday morning, but didn't see any of the paintball stuff missing. So not only did I get robbed, I got robbed by the dumbest window licker in the freaking county! He passed right by the $300 Schwinn I've got hanging by the door, the paintball bag (Classic 'mag, Model 98 Custom w/Cyclone, ProLite, two HPA tanks, two 20oz CO2 tanks, an Apache hopper, a 12v Revvy, 2 Vforce masks, a mess of barrels, and more other little bits and tools than I care to think of), the other Schwinn at the back of the garage, and the SCUBA tank. Fucking dolt.

My biggest hope is that dipshit pawns it or wears it around town to Trick or Treat in. Trust me, I know exactly where there is armour, and where there ain't armour on that rig - I won't even need a weapon, I'll just use my hands. Plus, I can always wash off the blood and pound out the dents. *evil grin*