ROCKET valve rip-off...??

[~kaos~]

I'm sure Craig or Rusty can smooth out any misinformation I might post regarding this but I don't think i'll be too off the mark.
I'm pretty certain that wne Mike Marr first created the Rocket that his patent centered on the fact that it would be the only one with the spring on the striker side of the valve. Ohter than that there would have been little or no need for a patent. Take a look at these valves in the pic below, unless Craig drasticly changed the body of the Madman Rocket valve lately these are a pretty basic rip-off.......
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa229/mrfngolf/DSC02258.jpg

[usagi_tetsu]

Is that a marker you picked up, or did you get the pic from another website?

[outreach]

bad show, to whoever ripped them off

[~kaos~]

Is that a marker you picked up, or did you get the pic from another website?
I ran across this posted f/s on another forum but at 300 bux it's just a little too much for my budget.

[usagi_tetsu]

$300? For just that in the pic? Um, no... I mean, it's a nice little micro/halfblock/turtle/martinized 'cocker body, but I want more of an actual working bloody marker for that kind of money.

[~kaos~]

$300? For just that in the pic? Um, no... I mean, it's a nice little micro/halfblock/turtle/martinized 'cocker body, but I want more of an actual working bloody marker for that kind of money.
That is pretty much what I thought when I saw it.......

[Spitlebug]

Indeed those appear to be knock offs. The valve body is definately different. If memory serves me correctly, the IP for the rocket valve was sold to someone a little while ago...

[~kaos~]

If memory serves me correctly, the IP for the rocket valve was sold to someone a little while ago...
Mike Marr was the originator of the Rocket valve as well as owner of Maddman Products..... 2 of our very own TOG members (CDarnell & RAP) purchased MP a few years ago. To the best of my knowledge the design has not been altered by them and/or released to be copied. I give him a call tomorrow and see what gives.....

[Spitlebug]

Well there you go, my memory isn't quite as bad as I thought it was. :)

[Edwin]

Sure looks like a knock off since the spring isn't "cone" shaped. The problem with Patents is: you have to legal fight to protect it, and it take a lot of cash to do that. Hopefully Craig paid up his Patent Fee to keep the patent active.

[Spitlebug]

Send out a C&D letter. That's typically enough to halt production/sale.

I am going to have to add this though. I think that valve body style is more conducive to efficient operation than the standard Rocket Valve body in lower pressure markers (Sub 300psi).

When one looks at the Bushmaster body the air hole to the upper tube is only the size of a Q drill bit (0.332"). Many high flow valves have much larger outlets than that, but really do little to increase the flow rate due to this "bottleneck". This is further compounded by the actual transfer of air to the bolt and paintball (and loss thereof).

[Edwin]

I was working on some calcualtions for the Tribal Valve to take advantage of full flow...

When I drill my Tribal Bodies I use Q bit also. This is the required bit for 3/8 UNF tap, if I recall correctly.

When I was working on the calculations I was trying to get the maximum area around the inlet, the seal and the inner body of the valve. I had a formula somewhere to calculate the maximum hole size to give equal/maximum area through all parts. I just never finished the design.....due to Maddman's patent.

From memory they had a patent on the Venturi, Cone Shape and Spring but I could be wrong.

I was thinking Sphere shaped cap, standard angled port (like red valve but larger), and Cone Spring....but that would infringe.

I doubt Craig would have much of a problem with me doing that....as he probably doesn't sell many Tribal Based Rocket Valves....I have about 4-5 of the valves that aren't even in Markers.

[Spitlebug]

I think 'Cocker turtle valves use spherical cupseals. IMHO, it would be really easy to build an mQ or ballanced style valve with a reverse spring. I contemplated doing it that way as it defeats all the other patents regarding pressure piloted ballanced valves. I never bothered as I knew of the Madmann patent. It could be used to create a new inverse electro-pnue similar to the Nerve, but with a much simpler and efficient operation.

[cdarnell]

I have not been on lately sorry guys, I am going to look into this more

Our patent is current, and covers any aerodynamic cup/cone seal, spring on the rear of the valve body, more then 2 holes in the body. This is a direct patent infringment and we will be sending a C&D letter.

thanks guys

[cdarnell]

Sphere shaped is a direct patent infringment that is actually in the patent drawings.

[Dances with Tribals]

Sphere shaped is a direct patent infringment that is actually in the patent drawings.
KILL KILL!! :horsie:

[~kaos~]

KILL KILL!! :horsie:
DwT.... thats too pemanent. How bout we just put they guys nutz in a big rusty and turn the handle until something pops....:littlede:

[~kaos~]

On a more serious note.....
I followed the Z-Force trail and it seems the purchase I followed originated from Warped Sportz LA, however it looks as tho "Warped Sportz" LA is also associated with other Warped Sportz. You might give Anthony (warped sportz KC) a call, he might be of some assistance.

[cdarnell]

I have followed it back to warped sportz LA, Ed Poorman ownes, from what I am reading it might be his design. each location is seperate entity, Anthony wont be much help anyway, it is not in his nature... LOL

Rusty is going to make some calls and try and make nice with them and see what it gets us.


On a more serious note.....
I followed the Z-Force trail and it seems the purchase I followed originated from Warped Sportz LA, however it looks as tho "Warped Sportz" LA is also associated with other Warped Sportz. You might give Anthony (warped sportz KC) a call, he might be of some assistance.

[Dances with Tribals]

DwT.... thats too pemanent. How bout we just put they guys nutz in a big rusty and turn the handle until something pops....:littlede:
Hmm good idea............then they'll just kill themselves!

[~kaos~]

I have followed it back to warped sportz LA, Ed Poorman ownes, from what I am reading it might be his design. each location is seperate entity, Anthony wont be much help anyway, it is not in his nature... LOL
Rusty is going to make some calls and try and make nice with them and see what it gets us.
Ed Poorman..... talk about about a blast from the past.
As for Anthony I kno what you mean *lol*, but there are actually a few people that he gets along with from time to time.

[Spitlebug]

How did you follow this trail ~kaos~? Do you have links or other incriminating evidence?

[~kaos~]

How did you follow this trail ~kaos~? Do you have links or other incriminating evidence?
Yeah, the one I posted here was also posted on a few other sites. But I also found a couple conversations regarding the origin of a "kit" and someone that built a similar custom 1/2 block and claimed to use ROCKET VALVES..... Warped Sportz LA turned up in most of the stuff I googled regarding z-force too.

[LoonWulf]

i remember and add for the Z-force bodies (two pieces i think was the selling point) from WS la

[Dances with Tribals]

Too bad this didn't get traced back to Smart Parts. Id like to see somebody sue the shit out of them for a change. Though theyd prolly try to quickly file a patent on something on the rocket valve to over ride the current one and claim the whole design was theirs all along..............................

[mustangii]

I talk to Anthony at warped KC on a regular Basis. Last time I was in there ,last week, I was told they are going back to their roots. The Irish Brigade to coming back soon.
edm

[r a b]

I talk to Anthony at warped KC on a regular Basis. Last time I was in there ,last week, I was told they are going back to their roots. The Irish Brigade to coming back soon.
edm

Nice - The whole PB business is hurting very bad.

[r a b]

I was thinking Sphere shaped cap, standard angled port (like red valve but larger), and Cone Spring....but that would infringe.

I doubt Craig would have much of a problem with me doing that....as he probably doesn't sell many Tribal Based Rocket Valves....I have about 4-5 of the valves that aren't even in Markers.

We will be more than happy to make you one. Oh wait - I think we already have it.

[Spitlebug]

I have some very good ideas regarding valve design, but I have neither the time nor the resources to pursue it. r a b, if you are interested give me a holler and I'll shoot you off some stuff.

[r a b]

Sounds good. 816-809-0945 Maddman Cell Rusty Brown

[Spitlebug]

Sounds good. 816-809-0945 Maddman Cell Rusty Brown

Alrighty. I will give you a call sometime soon. I have to deal with some stuff for Jack Rice (of Alien) and then I will get on actually working on it a bit.