Back on the Anti-SP warwagon......

[~kaos~]

Well I've actually never been off it, just less vocal. But in light of recent events I figured I'd throw some new logs on this fire.
I see 2 sides to it, you either support SP or you don't. Some people have tried to sell me on a 3rd side but I'm not buying into it and here's why.... Some fence sitters have convienced themselves that they are anti-SP even if they buy/own SP products that are "used". It took me awhile but I say they're still a sub group of the SP support idiots, here's why.... If their were NOT a market for used SP products people might think twice before buying a new one. Think about it... would you spend a few to several hundred dollars if you knew you would never be able to sell it after you've had your fill of it?? By creating (and/or supporting) a demand for used SP items people are supporting the evil idiot empire.
Of course that's just my twisted opinion. And there didn't seem to be too much new stuff posted so what the hell..... anyone else got 2 cents to throw in?

[usagi_tetsu]

Sadly, SP pays the big bucks to support the popular "professional" teams, so all the AGG kiddiez (y'know, they're using that term less and less these days, I'm waiting to see what the "fresh" new slang term will be) will continue to buy their products, no matter the actual worth or quality of said products. *shrug* The bastards just ain't going away.

Now, I'm not saying we should just give in and not rail against them, but you have to realize that even the third of paintball that greatly dislikes SP is not enough bad press to keep the other third of paintball that greatly likes SP (and the remaining third, the fence-sitters... these are sweeping estimations, folks, I have no hard, fast numbers on who supports or does not support SP) to switch sides.

I did see a couple of threads over on MCB and the Tinker's Guild that were gathering up donations to support an SP-style patent lawsuit against SP themselves. Apparently they found the very original electromarker patent and patent holder and were trying to get enough $$$ to hire him a lawyer, but I think those threads both died off without a whole lot of support.

Personally, my tactic looks like this: don't buy SP products by their lonesome, but if they come in a package deal, sell 'em back to the market at a decided mark-up. Might as well make some profit off the bastards.

[shiftycastro]

I still say the freak is one of the best barrel kits I use..... as far as the other stuff I won't use unless I just get a hell of a deal

[~kaos~]

Sadly, SP pays the big bucks to support the popular "professional" teams, so all the AGG kiddiez (y'know, they're using that term less and less these days, I'm waiting to see what the "fresh" new slang term will be) will continue to buy their products, no matter the actual worth or quality of said products. *shrug* The bastards just ain't going away.
True.... but wouldn't they have less $$$ to sling towards those pro teams if they were't selling as many products? In otherwords if it were UN-agg to own an SP product wouldn't the mindless kiddie masses follow the lead lemming to the next agg cliff? Can't we pin a Kingmann type sigma to them....

Now, I'm not saying we should just give in and not rail against them, but you have to realize that even the third of paintball that greatly dislikes SP is not enough bad press to keep the other third of paintball that greatly likes SP (and the remaining third, the fence-sitters... these are sweeping estimations, folks, I have no hard, fast numbers on who supports or does not support SP) to switch sides.
I'm not so sure of that.... I believe it only took one well placed rock from David to drop Goliath. ie; the main focus of the the SP suit has been company v.s. company. What if people were to think about it a little differently by putting names and faces to those who lost jobs at ICD or AKA? Maybe that's why I'm so anti-SP. There are 2 guys from ICD that come to mind that have been on a couple of the pb forums for years helping players (free of charge), maybe you know them.... Steve & Greg. Hella nice guys, bet their lives and families were affected by the SP suit. So maybe instead of me saying SP beat on ICD I say SP took food outta the mouths of my friends kids, or caused them not to celebrate Christmas in a normal fashion....? You just need to find the right Spin Doctor to kill the SP plague.

I did see a couple of threads over on MCB and the Tinker's Guild that were gathering up donations to support an SP-style patent lawsuit against SP themselves. Apparently they found the very original electromarker patent and patent holder and were trying to get enough $$$ to hire him a lawyer, but I think those threads both died off without a whole lot of support.
I can't believe that a lawyer looking for some inexpensive headline exposure wouldn't take it probono..... this could be bigger than O.J.

Personally, my tactic looks like this: don't buy SP products by their lonesome, but if they come in a package deal, sell 'em back to the market at a decided mark-up. Might as well make some profit off the bastards.
That's pretty much what I do, however there have been a few times I have made a reduced offer and asked for the SP items to be removed..... and they've done it.

AND Troy.... I'll agree that the Freak is one of the better things to ever come out of SP. I have similar feelings about the AA one piece and 2 piece barrels, great barrels but I don't own either one.

[Spitlebug]

I am 100% anti-SP. If you ask me a lot of the financial woes of the Internet and Brick and Mortar Stores/Fields have been a direct reflection of Smart Parts business plan. I find the industry is amazingly short sighted where future profits may be garnered. The industry players also have a very long memory too. I bet, if you asked Bob Long all the names of people who have screwed him he could tell you a long list in alphebetical order...

*Sigh* I really don't believe that SP should be recieving ill-gotten gains from Intellectual Property that they have no honest right to. It's really too bad that if you buy any marker that isn't from a few select taiwanese and chinese manufacturers that you are indirectly playing Smart Parts. Also, when you buy an after market board, you are also paying Smart Parts. It's ludicrous. There is all kinds of evidence to support the fact that Smart Parts aquired the patent to the Impulse illegally through an auction which is not the proper venue for the sale of IP. Next comes the fact that (and I know this to be 100% accurate) Jerry Dobbins of ICD and formerly Line SI had designed the Bushmaster and Defiant early in '95. There is also the Edelman patent to look at which more directly influences any other electro-pnue as it was designed for paintball soley and it was around in late '85-86.

Greg Schuette is a personal hero of mine. He has helped me countless times. He is also directly responsible for a good number of ICD products. I have the utmost respect for Greg.

[Dances with Tribals]

I used to think that it was okay to get SP stuff used. I have since seen the error of my ways and currently do not own any SP products. Well my Fluster has a freak barrel on it. I used to think the freak was great as well. But now I think its total crap. I don't know if its new quality control or what, but the newest freak barrels I have used havent been up to par. In fact they have been absolutely horrible. When Evil introduced their Pipe barrel system it immediately trounced the freak IMO.

[Spitlebug]

I too have a pipe kit. Very nice barrels for a player on a budget.

[~kaos~]

I too have a pipe kit. Very nice barrels for a player on a budget.
I too own a PIPE kit, as well as the MacDev MatchStik kit.

Small world Spitle.... Greg & Steve from ICD have assisted me many countless times. I was only too pleased to return the favor when ICD was having trouble with the lpr and hpr in the first batch of BKO's. Several players along with input from Greg were able to solve some issues that plagued the early BKO's. Greg, Steve and the rest of the ICD staff were always willing to help and were nothing less than professional.

[Spitlebug]

Greg co-designed an anti chop rammer for the Bushmaster with me. We also designed a marker together. What would be the BushViper. Sort of a Bushmaster II. All the things a Bushmaster could be and should be from the factory. It includes some technology never seen before in the stacked tube pnue genre of paintball markers.

[usagi_tetsu]

I have the MacDev kit, but my fave is the Sanchez Machine SM-1's. I've got two full kits of those, and love 'em.

[mustangii]

hate to admit but I have owned 2 shoeboxes and an 03 shocker, the shoeboxes were given to me and I sold one for a healthy profit, the 03 shocker was traded for a 03 Lasoya timmey, I have an old freak kit that I will probily keep forever. Karnage is such a small bore paint. And because I am the Missouri Coordinater for the MO chapter of the CPPA I can't use the EVIL kit, or anything that has a demonic name.
edm

[Dances with Tribals]

And because I am the Missouri Coordinater for the MO chapter of the CPPA I can't use the EVIL kit, or anything that has a demonic name.
edm
Huh? Don't you think thats going a little too far? I can see their arguments if the company is promoting the "evil or demonic" signature. But in the case of evil paintball its just a name and doesn't really reflect upon their practices. I would think that goes along the lines of violent video games. People dont kill other people because of video games, and im sure they dont develop demonic religions because of a companies name. But I guess if you do it for one company you have to do it for all.

[usagi_tetsu]

It's all about perception, DwT - years ago, as a marshal of a local chapter of the SCA, I tried to create an award to give out every week. We had a bunch of newer fighters, and the award was just something real basic to let them know they were doing good and encourage them. I made the mistake of calling the award the "Fighting Like a Demon" award. Even in the fairly religiously open-mindedness of the SCA, that was the wrong answer, and quickly had to drop the idea. There was nothing satanic or demonic intended in the title, I just thought it sounded really cool, but the hue and cry that was raised was something to behold.

*shrug* What can I say, the lowest common denominator in the world is fairly low and closed minded.

[mustangii]

this rule isn't for the members at large, just for national, state board members and tourney teams sponcered by the CPPA. I know evil is just a line offered by PMI I as a board member am held at a higher standard. It goes to my witness, If I am professing that I am a Christian and use these products maybe it may cause a weeker believer to stumble. same goes for drinking, and partying, swearing, lewd commits, lewd jokes that sort of thing. Not that I am prefect, not by a long shot, just forgiven. But enough about The CPPA. this thread is about Smart Parts and their anntics.
edm

[flyweightnate]

...So based on this, can we get the CPPA to boycott SP for immorality in their business practices? Honestly, there's gotta be some verse that can be directly applied... and i hope it isn't "give to Caesar what is Caesar's". ;)

[8-ball]

Ok.. don't get all worked up about this comment.. Just never seen exactly why you guys dislike smartparts I know it has something to do with stealing other peoples designs .. but if they went and got the patent then Kudos for them... but I guess I'm not educated on the subject..

[mustangii]

can't remeber any verses that pertain to the sp problem, but there is a contemperay Christian song" I Want to be like my Jesus" says He hung around with thieves and liers.
edm

[8-ball]

can't remeber any verses that pertain to the sp problem, but there is a contemperay Christian song" I Want to be like my Jesus" says He hung around with thieves and liers.
edm

No I meant everyone here.. the thread in general :P

[flyweightnate]

Eh, the thing with Smart Parts is more about what's happened to the industry because of them, than any specific incident. The specific incidents are BS too, tho. Example: suing ICD, AGD, and AKA. All small companies, grassroots paintball stuff. No more Vikings and Excals, no more E-mags and X-mags, and ICD, well, definitely got pinched a bit there too.

Add to that, they have singlehandedly caused a price increase on ALL electronic paintball goods (guns AND boards), on a patent declared not valid later on (took what, 8 years to reach a ruling vs WDP?). And, in general, they do business like assholes, pardon the language. They sued AGD. AGD was their original sponsor! Tom Kaye gave the Gardner's business life! It's like shooting your mother.

Oh, and both the Impulse and Shocker were contested ownership, patented with questionable legality, and were the only real innovation to come out of SPs kitchen for quite some time. Smart Valve? Magic Box? Complete BS. Less engineering involved than on a Spyder LPC. Spiral Rifling? A mistake. It was supposed to clean the barrel, but didn't help, so they marketed it another way.

Oh, and before SP lawsuits, paintball was almost open-source. Very few patents. Otherwise Orr's cocker wouldn't exist, just Palmer's Camille and Typhoon/ Blazer series. Phantoms? Nope. Nelsons would have had a patent somewhere. Sheridan would have patented the stacked tube layout, perhaps... thus preventing Palmer from even making a semi without a license. In short, the industry would suck.

Then SP rolls in, and innovation takes a downward spiral. Since '94, what new has been made? Spoolers. And that's cuz DYE grabbed the patent, and beat SP over the head with it. Everything else is old news. Compare that to the 1982-1994 bracket: everything else.

[Dances with Tribals]

8-ball picture this. You invent a pretty sweet paintball technology. Its raking in the dough. But, its not patented yet. SP sees that, patents it for themselves and "their" technology. All of a sudden your being sued to cease and desist making the technology, being sued a big sum of money, and being sued damages for every piece of technology you sold. Ala-sp.

[Edwin]

That is how patents work.

If you invent something, you better patent or someone else can. No matter if you invented it first or not. Once they get the patent, you have to fight them in court to prove that you are the real inventer therefore spending several hundreds of thousands in the mean time.

Therefore the small inventors usually get fucked as they can't even affort to fight huge companies in the court system.

[8-ball]

..well.. looks like it is the small companies fault for not getting the patent..

not sticking up for SP though but it seemes that people should get a patent before they release things..

[~kaos~]

..well.. looks like it is the small companies fault for not getting the patent..
not sticking up for SP though but it seemes that people should get a patent before they release things..
The deal is paintball used to be a pretty tight community, Palmer shared with Orr... etc. Technology was freely exchanged for the good of the industry & the consumer. That is until the idiots at SP got greedy.... It wasn't that ICD didn't pantent their idea, it's like it was stated earlier, it was actually someone elses idea. It basicly was something being shared throughout the paintball industry thx to the generosity of the true inventor. Rather than let this continue SP decided to take it for themselves so they alone could reap the profits. They then line up all the smallest companies they could think of and systematicly sued them outta the production end of paintball. Again the "companies" are made up of people with families... with bills to pay and mouths to feed. Basicly 8-ball what happened is GOOD people that helped the paintball industry grow in a positive way got beat down by some shitheads via thug mentality.
That's just my bend on it, and that's why I don't even own used SP stuff. If I get some in a trade I get rid of it asap.

On a side note and somewhat reletive to what mustangii was talking about... back in the day when I played tourney speedball and capt'd a few teams, I refused to use a team name that expressed violence, and such.

[Dances with Tribals]

On a side note and somewhat reletive to what mustangii was talking about... back in the day when I played tourney speedball and capt'd a few teams, I refused to use a team name that expressed violence, and such.
Yea I can see where you wouldnt support a team name of I will kill you, or rip your head off. I can see mustangii's point too. That would be the same if it were the reverse situation. Some satanic group sure as heck wouldnt use an angel or similar company/marker.

[8-ball]

ah ok thanks for the enlightenment :D

[Spitlebug]

And because I am the Missouri Coordinater for the MO chapter of the CPPA I can't use the EVIL kit, or anything that has a demonic name.
edm

this rule isn't for the members at large, just for national, state board members and tourney teams sponcered by the CPPA. I know evil is just a line offered by PMI I as a board member am held at a higher standard. It goes to my witness, If I am professing that I am a Christian and use these products maybe it may cause a weeker believer to stumble. same goes for drinking, and partying, swearing, lewd commits, lewd jokes that sort of thing. Not that I am prefect, not by a long shot, just forgiven. But enough about The CPPA. this thread is about Smart Parts and their anntics.
edm

Total BS. If Jesus was walking around right now he'd tell you that himself. I believe Jesus is a practical savior as can be seen by his profession. I too am a CPPA member, have been for a long time. There is nothing in a name, but the connotations perceived by it...

Eh, the thing with Smart Parts is more about what's happened to the industry because of them, than any specific incident. The specific incidents are BS too, tho. Example: suing ICD, AGD, and AKA. All small companies, grassroots paintball stuff. No more Vikings and Excals, no more E-mags and X-mags, and ICD, well, definitely got pinched a bit there too.

Add to that, they have singlehandedly caused a price increase on ALL electronic paintball goods (guns AND boards), on a patent declared not valid later on (took what, 8 years to reach a ruling vs WDP?). And, in general, they do business like assholes, pardon the language. They sued AGD. AGD was their original sponsor! Tom Kaye gave the Gardner's business life! It's like shooting your mother.

Oh, and both the Impulse and Shocker were contested ownership, patented with questionable legality, and were the only real innovation to come out of SPs kitchen for quite some time. Smart Valve? Magic Box? Complete BS. Less engineering involved than on a Spyder LPC. Spiral Rifling? A mistake. It was supposed to clean the barrel, but didn't help, so they marketed it another way.

Oh, and before SP lawsuits, paintball was almost open-source. Very few patents. Otherwise Orr's cocker wouldn't exist, just Palmer's Camille and Typhoon/ Blazer series. Phantoms? Nope. Nelsons would have had a patent somewhere. Sheridan would have patented the stacked tube layout, perhaps... thus preventing Palmer from even making a semi without a license. In short, the industry would suck.

Then SP rolls in, and innovation takes a downward spiral. Since '94, what new has been made? Spoolers. And that's cuz DYE grabbed the patent, and beat SP over the head with it. Everything else is old news. Compare that to the 1982-1994 bracket: everything else.

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner. This pretty much sums up the whole thing. Think about all the advances we have in the paintball world. Starting from the air source up we can see many systems in place that were invented by the fore-fathers of paintball that; were and were not patented but no royalties were ever charged. Basically put, paintball would be dead or not as safe were it not for the standard ASA. Do you think, that such a system would be devised today that anyone would adopt it if they had to pay royalties? Probably not. What really kills me, is that if the industry was so worried they would have dealt with outside competition first (China, Taiwan), before waging war internally (Domestic).

Essentially, what this all boils down to, is that Smart Parts took a piece of paintball technology that was generally considered common knowledge or common property and patented it (through dubious means), and began pursuing royalties. This whole thing stinks, but we can fight back as consumers. Refuse to directly support Smart Parts by buying foreign markers, or markers that are not electronic. I would love to see a pnue-revival.

[~kaos~]

Yea I can see where you wouldnt support a team name of I will kill you, or rip your head off. I can see mustangii's point too. That would be the same if it were the reverse situation. Some satanic group sure as heck wouldnt use an angel or similar company/marker.
Well it was also during the times when PB was trying to lose it's bad image.... people used to think of it as some sort of para-military movement bent on teaching youth how to enjoy 'killing'. (etc)

[Spitlebug]

We all know that to be untrue. People can think what they will.

[Dances with Tribals]

Well it was also during the times when PB was trying to lose it's bad image.... people used to think of it as some sort of para-military movement bent on teaching youth how to enjoy 'killing'. (etc)
Unfortunately some people still do. And as the popularity of paintball grows, so does the persona that paintball is a bad activity. When someone bashes a mailbox or beats someone to death with a bat, the bat and baseball had nothing to do with it. It was an act of violence from a deliquent. When someone shoots up a mailbox or shoots someone in a drive by with a paintball marker, the paintball marker had everything to do with it. It was the negative "activity" of paintball that directed the activity and markers and fields should now be banned in said city/county. If the person had taken up baseball/other sport that never would have happened, or so they say. Which is total bs. If someone is going to partake in a deliquent activity they are going to do it no matter what they have available, be it a baseball bat or paintball marker. Which is why, my friends, education is key......................

[Spitlebug]

I take an active role in promoting the sport in my area. I know exactly how it is.

[~kaos~]

Unfortunately some people still do. And as the popularity of paintball grows, so does the persona that paintball is a bad activity. When someone bashes a mailbox or beats someone to death with a bat, the bat and baseball had nothing to do with it. It was an act of violence from a deliquent. When someone shoots up a mailbox or shoots someone in a drive by with a paintball marker, the paintball marker had everything to do with it. It was the negative "activity" of paintball that directed the activity and markers and fields should now be banned in said city/county. If the person had taken up baseball/other sport that never would have happened, or so they say. Which is total bs. If someone is going to partake in a deliquent activity they are going to do it no matter what they have available, be it a baseball bat or paintball marker. Which is why, my friends, education is key......................
That and what Spitlebug had to say is why I was more willing to assist younger players that understood the big picture. Whether you wanted it or not you became a good will embassador of paintball everytime you hit the field or held a marker. Present a positive image and we slowly crept forward toward acceptance, display anything preceived as negative and all hell broke loose.... team paintball when played correctly clearly shows how TEAM WORK pays off, and team work is something that pays off in life as well.

[Spitlebug]

It's too bad we can't concentrate our anger and really hit a solid blow to Smart Parts.

[Dances with Tribals]

It's too bad we can't concentrate our anger and really hit a solid blow to Smart Parts.
Hmmm one of my friends dad owns his own constructon company. He has a wrecking ball we can borrow......................

[usagi_tetsu]

I hear the Gardner brothers personally play in the SPPL, we could get a team together in hopes of overshooting and bonus-balling them. We could even make the company who makes the pepperballs for the police our official paint sponsor to make it just that extra special for Billy and Adam. *evil grin*

[Spitlebug]

Cruel, unusual, deviant. I like it. :)

[~kaos~]

I hear the Gardner brothers personally play in the SPPL, we could get a team together in hopes of overshooting and bonus-balling them. We could even make the company who makes the pepperballs for the police our official paint sponsor to make it just that extra special for Billy and Adam. *evil grin*
I would actually set aside vacation time, take it off without pay if necessary and drive across the u.s. just to show them the true meaning of 'evil'....

[flyweightnate]

Any presidential candidates pushing for an embargo on Chinese manufacturing? That would be a nice shot to ... oh wait, everybody these days. But at least SP would take it hardest.
And seriously, if that pepperball idea occurred, I would pay $$ for a DVD. SERIOUS $$$. I'd pay just as much (ok, not really...) if someone could find me a link to a video of Adam wiping and getting tackled by a ref.

[usagi_tetsu]

No but I can point you to a video of Bill falling down and damn near breaking an arm - find it right here (http://webdog.specialopspaintball.com/video/oldschool/BillGrun.mpg). Video hosted on WebDog Radio (http://webdog.specialopspaintball.com/), gotta give credit where it's due.

And check out that old skool tourney setup - 'mag on a remote. SP hadn't begun to make their own markers by '95. *sigh* Good times, good times.

[flyweightnate]

...or sued their sponsors yet...
Didn't the PVI Shocker get released in '94? Or was it patented in '94, released later?

HAHAHAAA! That's priceless! Nice video.

[usagi_tetsu]

It was like '96 or '97.

Damn, got me googling the old shoebox shockers and found this page (http://www.zdspb.com/tech/pvi/technical.html) detailing its operation. Let me sum it up for you: overly complicated.

[flyweightnate]

Yikes... I thought they were more like an Excalibur or something, ram-driven poppet valve on bottom, ram driven bolt on top. WTF were they thinking?

I mean, it looks like someone said, Sovereign up top, then let's make the bottom tube as complicated as possible. Dump chambers, spool valves... No wonder it ate gas. I think SP sued AKA, just because AKA made SP's designs look foolish.

[usagi_tetsu]

Well, you have to remember that this was the mid '90's - everyone thought that closed bolt markers were more accurate than open bolt markers because of some unscientific tests that compared the two at the time. You have to admit, AKA's Excalibur (closed bolt operation) is more complex than their Viking (open bolt operation), but both pretty much perform the same in the accuracy/consistency arena. Plus, the PVI Shocker was the first production run electroflinger, and they just didn't realize how easy it was to make a solenoid-driven setup. Even though the Bushies, Imps, and Tribals were considered the lower-end electromarkers of the times, they were vast improvements over the high-end markers as all electroflingers of the time performed about the same, but those 3 had the simplest operational system by far.

[flyweightnate]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I prefer closed bolt (mostly due to sound signature and feed rate, which I find faster with my gravity hoppers due to no blowback up the pipe) but no WAY I would grab one of those Shockers. I could deal with an Excal. Even might prefer it to a Viking. Some of the OCD inside me likes that extra bit of control over the cycle. But as my dad advised me years ago, the simplest solution is the best solution. What's that called, Occam's Razor?

[usagi_tetsu]

Close enough, check out the wiki on Occam's Razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor).

[flyweightnate]

Yeah... not quite, oh well. Either way, the PVI Shocker was REALLY a Rube Goldberg. Seriously, if they wanted to I bet they could have filed 14 independent patents, considering how many freakin' things were going on inside that gun.

[~kaos~]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I prefer closed bolt (mostly due to sound signature and feed rate, which I find faster with my gravity hoppers due to no blowback up the pipe)
Not always the case.... most people time a Cocker so it operates and fires correctly but still has blow back up the feed tube. It takes a little fine tuning and a small piece of tissue to get it timed where it actually draws air inward thru the feed.
AND just so we stay on topic..... piss on sp!!

[usagi_tetsu]

I wouldn't waste my piss on SP.

Speaking of crap, did anyone else catch the news that ICD is shutting down?

[Spitlebug]

I wouldn't waste my piss on SP.

Speaking of crap, did anyone else catch the news that ICD is shutting down?

I did. I've known such since SP sued ICD. They have been more of a Brand Name of NPS/KEE. KEE even owns all of ICD's IP.

All the ICD guys have been telling me for years that they are coming out with something new blah blah blah. I just couldn't convince them otherwise.

[usagi_tetsu]

Welcome to the ranks of the dispossesed. It had seemed to me that third party manufacturers (Zenitram and whoever was doing the pinching rams and tubless mods, can't remember) were doing more to ICD's markers than they were, just never thought their eventual demise would come so soon.

[Spitlebug]

Greg Schutte produces the pinching rams for Bushmasters (I co-designed it with him). They don't so much as pinch, as they just stop when they contact a half fed ball. Greg also produces the trayless upgrades and aftermarket gripframes.

Video of Anti-Chop ram: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvhFQZyI9jI
Video of Anti-Chop ram in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV_KMYS8C1Q

Coincidentally, it's called the GBR. So named after Greg (Schutte) and Brenden (Gansner - Myself) Rammer.

[usagi_tetsu]

See? I was in the presence of greatness and didn't even realize it. =D


Oh come on, did we really have to see the weird Japanese sock monkey screaming "I like bukake" in the middle of the demonstration video?

[~kaos~]

So were you associated with BlueFork?

[Spitlebug]

See? I was in the presence of greatness and didn't even realize it. =D


Oh come on, did we really have to see the weird Japanese sock monkey screaming "I like bukake" in the middle of the demonstration video?

Hardly greatness. ;)

Not my video. That was done by a guy that goes by many monikers... most noteworthy is pump on PbN, B2k_Lover here, and analbum on the ICDO.

So were you associated with BlueFork?

Not really. Greg and I are somewhat associated. He's helped me out quite a bit when it comes to paintball. I suppose you *could* call me his protege but that might be stretching it. It's safer to assume we have similar interests and goals, we have been known to collaborate.