KC area locals, read this!

[usagi_tetsu]

As I'm pretty sure most of you aren't paying attention to what's happening over on the PrettyBoyNetwork, I figured I'd point out this (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2539951) announcement to everyone.

Okay, I know there a lot of KC metro area paint flingers around here (as well as some ex-locals who know the parties involved), and am wondering what your reactions are to that announcement. Is this going to encourage you to go play there if you don't already, discourage you from going at all, or not change your patronage of DZ? Should other fields take up this policy?

Oh, and for you non-locals, what are your opinions?



I'd already posted my thoughts on MCB, but here they are again for your perusal. Feel free to refute any of my statements. Or just make fun of me in general. Whatever boats your float.

The last time I was out there, roughly 4 months ago, there were a LOT of people with cyclone feeds on their markers, and only some us were toting markers (read, M98's) that could be converted back to an elbow feed. So a lot of A5's and X7's that don't come, stock, with an option to change to a conventional non-agitated hopper. This is definitely going to make more than a few players in the area unhappy.

Personally, my happy medium would be to restrict hoppers to SPPL rules (non-force-fed hoppers - except the Q due to its low capacity) but that's only because I have a ton of fast mechanical semi's and a few non-eyed electros (old Toxic Toys Tribals that I'm not putting eyes into). I have no problems playing rec with a 12v Revvy, but trying to use a "slap" agitated hopper means at least three times a day, I'm shooting a blender. Then again, I do have more than a few pumps laying about (5 at last count), and some really old mechanical semis, all of which I'd love to have an excuse to take out and play with (like a Tippmann SMG-60 factory upgraded to a .68 Special, would love to get a "clank tank" for it and fling some paint with the old girl). This will be a perfect opportunity, as I won't have that psychological block of "oh, I'd better take my 'mag/'cocker/M98C, or I'm just going to be outgunned by the Ion-totin' AGG kiddiez". Now it don't matter if the other guy has an Ion, he's got the same rate of fire as the newbie with the rental.

So, overall, I'm very surprised at the announcement, but, after some serious initial doubt, I am now happy to see one of my local fields stepping up to this level of consideration for the rec-ball'ers and rental-totin' newbies.

Anyone else local to the field have an opinion? I'm not disparaging everyone else's comments just because they're not local, but I'm interested in seeing if DZ will still be a viable business because we the locals support their decision with our continued patronage.

[~kaos~]

I posted my thoughts.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixsun View Post
4. "How its really played" You can enjoy skiing with out skiing like a Xgamer. There are extremes and there are the rest. This industry needs more longevity and participation from the 'rest' and need the extremist to stop embarrassing the entire group.

I'll use the above quote to expand on my 2cents.....
It's true that you can enjoy casual rec-style skiing without having to ski like an Xgamer BUT if you prefer to ski like an Xgamer they don't kick you off the slope. Different levels and types of skiers enjoy their level (or style) of recreation on the SAME MOUNTAIN on the SAME DAY, just in different areas. Perhaps that is the solution for paintball. Adopt skiing's "Black Diamond", "Blue Square" & "Green Circle" (expert/intermediate/beginner) classifications for the paintball field. Let your customer choose the level of play they want to experience..... or does that make too much sense?

[usagi_tetsu]

Skiing is such a bad metaphor for paintball, though. I understand both arguments, and agree a little with both, but seeing as skiing is a singular type of sport (ie: you compete against a clock or yourself), it just doesn't translate well. Like this: your Xgamer skiier comes off the black slope onto the green slope... and skis past all the snow bunnies, affecting their enjoyment of skiing not one iota. Unless the slopes are just jampacked and there's hardly any extra room, said Xgame skiier isn't going to drive the snow bunny off the green slope because there's no direct competition. However, your average AGGlet (you know him, he's convinced mommy he needs the latest electroflinger with ramping and a hopper to be "cool", and only cares about his own personal win) walks over to the open rec-play from the tourney field at your local field and starts smoking out the rental players with his technology given "skill", pissing off the rentals and the non-serious, fun seeking rec-ballers, because paintball is direct competition.

The analogy does work in the sense that yes, the field could stop this kind of behavior by offering all levels of play on divided areas of the property. The problem is - and you know this Kaos, you used to live out here - there's usually not enough rec-ballers of any stripe to make up stratified groups like that and give everyone the play they want. At least not in the Midwest, with our low population density levels, we just don't get enough players of a weekend to fill up three or more areas of play.

Ultimately, I think this is a simple solution, far simpler than SPPL's ROF limiting hopper rules to enforce and understand, and one that's not too far out in left field. Sure, they will lose business to other fields that don't have this rule, but they will also gain back business from people like me. I tend to play outlaw woodsball because of economics factor for one (it's closer and I don't have to pay as much), but even I hate walking out there and getting lit up by the local AGGlets. I hadn't planned on going out to DZ this year due to the aforementioned factors, but with this, I'm going to try to go at least once to show support. Considering I've played 4 times in the last 24 months, that's saying a lot.

[~kaos~]

Oh I agree about alot of it....
But I seriously believe that it's a people issue, not an equipment issue too. Implimenting the use of a gravity feed hopper might slow down the ROF but it still doesn't change the problem on the end of the trigger. You can still bonusball a noob with an 8bps marker if that's the type person you are. I'd also like to point out thru a little research and 'ol school knowledge that it looks as tho it might be possible to get 13-15bps without a motorized hopper. Archon claims that their gravity fed design hopper will feed at a rate of 11.6bps, add an old school smokestack feedneck and you're in the 14/15bps range. So going to the gravity fed hopper may not do all they are hoping for. In the end the refs are gunna have to quit visiting with one another and enforce the field rules. The fields are gunna have to hire more refs so the ratio is something manageable. 1 ref can't watch 20 players.... and when the refs don't (or won't) enforce the rules to protect noobs from getting hammered you do what we used to do at Jaegers. 2 or 3 of us got together and went after the idiot that thought it was fun to pick on the noobs and showed him what it was like. Getting bonusballed by 2-3 guys tends to get the attention of even the dimmest of bulbs.

[usagi_tetsu]

Oddly enough, this exact argument just came out over on MCB. I think most of the ass hats will be too lazy to go back and figure out how the old timers got the most out of their non-motorized hoppers, and the old timers that do show up will be too tore up and broken to get around the field really well.

Ah hell, the proof is in the pudding, as they say, and we can argue it all we want, but nothing shall be proven until Spring thaws out the fields and they can conduct business once again. I personally like the idea and need to work on getting my pumps and old semi's (that .68 Special fires, believe it or no, but has about as much kick as my gov't issued M16A2) in playable condition so I can show my support. Everyone else will do as they will, and the proof shall be in the pudding. And their bank accounts, of course.

[Spitlebug]

I play woodsball/outlaw ball. The nice thing about it is that we as players make the rules on the field. Sure there are some assholes that come to the field, but they get uninvited very quickly. I find that a lot of the regulars play to the skill level of those on the field. If we have a renter group, there is no way in hell I am going to let a string of 15-20 balls fly into the side of some 12-13 year old kids noggin. We go out to have fun, it's really too bad that field owners (and I am pretty sure this is for liability reasons) are limiting what can be done on their fields as far as gear goes.

[r a b]

Hackers!!! that is all I see. What happened to the day of "oh shit I'm hit" and walk off the field. The main problem with overshooting is that players often feel the need to shoot several times to make the person get out of the game. Basically if the fields had better refs on them that stopped this nonsense, this wouldnt be an issue.

[mustangii]

what about oldschool players like me. I have a automag rt with tall centerfeed neck and an old scholl icd hopper. running on 1000 psi the rt will shoot around 26 rps when you sweet spot the trigger. the icd hopper was designed to line up the balls so they would travel stiaght down the feed neck.
edm

[Dances with Tribals]

Hackers!!! that is all I see. What happened to the day of "oh shit I'm hit" and walk off the field. The main problem with overshooting is that players often feel the need to shoot several times to make the person get out of the game. Basically if the fields had better refs on them that stopped this nonsense, this wouldnt be an issue.
That is actually a good point. I never thought of that. I dont ever call myself out until I know the ball broke, but cheating has steadily gotten worse over the years. Refs are a big problem and also a big solution to that problem as well. When we have 40-60 people a game having one ref (Wacky Warriors) just won't cut it.