New Tribal LPR--Something Really Odd about my Side-Switch Mephy!!! [Archive]

Edwin

03-18-2005, 09:30 AM

Well Andy, your first thought was wrong, but your second was much better. :D
Can'tthink of1, A yes I guess, an AOC is technically a LPR.....

So, the little nifty thing that is sitting there is the.....

World's First Externally Adjustable LPR for Tribals that fits entirely inside the Tribal Body!!!

Here is a CAD Rendering:
http://www.tribal-paintball.com/edwin247/tribalinternallpr.jpg

Oh by the way only one exists and it is made out of Titanium.

usagi_tetsu

03-18-2005, 10:17 AM

Ooh...

Edwin, bud, you are an evil, evil man. Of course, that's why we like you so much, but still, eVIL, like the fruITs of the deVIL.

(bonus points to whoever can name that movie...)

How does it compare against your LPRC, performance wise? Are we gonna have to beg Have Blue for a full diagnostic test like he did for HPRs a while back?

jeremy.sears

03-18-2005, 10:40 AM

ok ok ok how much will it be? :Mooner:

Edwin

03-18-2005, 12:28 PM

I haven't gotten that far yet, as I just made the drawing on Wednesday, and machined the prototype on Thursday. I did test it for LP range (0 to overpressurizing the noid), and I cycled about 30 times at 90 psi with little to no drop off (no paint--dryfire). I need to do a little more work and get the drawing to my machine shop for quotation. As I am already overwelhmed with just doing the LPRC on my own.

jeremy.sears

03-18-2005, 12:31 PM

eh, move to louisville KY area I will help you out when Im not teaching at the academy :D

can'tthink of1

03-18-2005, 02:13 PM

So soon as I get close to getting a lprc, you come out and show this... You're a creul man Edwin. Though, its only a lpr so it would need a volumizer to match the performance of a lprc right? If so, I would just stick with the lprc, but then again, I need the lprc to even get my twister project started, so I'm gonna go with it for sure pretty much, unless this lpr is some kind of superior design and has really great flow and such...

JaKaL

03-18-2005, 02:43 PM

eVIL, like the fruITs of the deVIL.

So I married an axe murderer.

Actually that's one of my favorite movie quotes. Use it all the time.

That and:
"That's like a dollar an hour!!!"

Edwin

03-18-2005, 03:39 PM

The new LPR is the same design by function meaning it has the same valve operation, but it doesn't have near the volume that the LPRC has!!!

The ID/Piston of the LPRC is 0.510" in diameter, and it has a length of about 1.75" which gives an internal volume in the LPRC of 2.8 cubic inches. Right outside the LPRC body there is more room where volume is added and that figure is .138 cubic inches. So the total volume for the LPRC is 2.938 cubic inches

On the other hand the Internal LPR has a inner diameter of .339" and a length of about .200", which gives the volume in the internal LPR of 0.213 cubic inches. Also outside the internal LPR there is more room where volume is added and that volume is .281. So the total volume for the internal lprc is .494 cubic inches.

So the LPRC versus the internal LPR has a volume gain of 6x, and volume and recharge is what you need for consistance and low pressure operation

Compared to the stock AOC that has about 0.236 cubic inches of volume. Both of my products kick the stock AOC's ASS badly!!!!

Compared to the stock AOC:
LPRC has 12.45x more volume than the AOC
Internal LPR has 2.1x more volume than the AOC

There are other advantages of my products when compared to the AOC. First and most obvious is the externally adjustable feature, and second is the recharge rate. It appears that the stock AOC would have a pretty good recharge rate, as the holes are fairly large, but some have horrible recharge, and others operate pretty good.

That's enough, my head is bleeding!!! :D

usagi_tetsu

03-19-2005, 09:53 AM

And Jakal is the winner! Gutter, tell him what he's won! (Gutter: er?)

Edwin, bud, ever thought about hiring a slew of lawyers to protect you from the likes of SP and producing your own paintmarker?

TheTramp

03-19-2005, 10:12 AM

warpedmephisto

03-19-2005, 03:34 PM

Nice, Edwin! More quality products I see!

Edwin

03-19-2005, 07:11 PM

It'd be interesting to see how much higher you had to keep the HPR to make up for the lost volume. As a guy who isn't upsessed with ultra low pressure I could see giving up the volume to have the LPR be completely internal.

Yeah there is something to be said about an internal LPR. It definately keeps the marker the "most" stock looking. It would be nice on a Fluster or and Addicted.

I should also mention that the Internal LPR requires one mod to make it work. The vent hole for the AOC (under the ASA adapter) needs to be drilled and taped for a 4-40 or 6-32 and inserted with a little Blue Locktite.

In order for me to make it totally internal. I had to use all the length I had before you hit the ASA screw. I may try to make it work without modding the hole, but I would need yet another custom spring. I am getting tired of buying 1000s of springs when I know I will never sell that many!!!!

Edwin

03-19-2005, 07:11 PM

Nice, Edwin! More quality products I see!

Thanks Andy!!!

ccrobbins

03-21-2005, 07:14 AM

but I would need yet another custom spring. I am getting tired of buying 1000s of springs when I know I will never sell that many!!!!

I bet you could make some really nice bouncy shoes....With all dem springs I mean. I wear a size 10 btw.

bullschmidt2k3

03-21-2005, 06:41 PM

that's really cool. My lpr sticks out about 1/4" looks like I gotta get a different one now...

I could do so many nifty things with 100 little springs :buttrock:

Edwin

03-21-2005, 06:53 PM

that's really cool. My lpr sticks out about 1/4" looks like I gotta get a different one now...

I could do so many nifty things with 100 little springs :buttrock:

What LPR do you have??? The only other LPR made for Tribals besides my LPRC is a MacDev LPR that sticks out more like 1/2" or More!!!

bullschmidt2k3

03-21-2005, 07:11 PM

macdev ok, so maybe it is more like 1/2" I like to round things so they sound cooler...

Edwin

03-21-2005, 08:13 PM

Round up next time!!! It makes my LPR more appealing!!!!

Edwin

03-30-2005, 07:49 PM

I have 100 Tribal Internal LPRs (TILPR) on order with my local CNC Machine shop.
I'll have to get them back to me then polish them up a bit, then send to ANO.

I also have to order some custom springs for the TILPR so I am at least 5-6 weeks out.

warpedmephisto

03-30-2005, 09:09 PM

Did you ever come to a final price for them?

Edwin

03-31-2005, 07:46 AM

Ummm, not yet.
I actually don't even know what my machine shop is charging me yet, as they quoted me on a quantity of 35 at first and the prices were ok, then we decided to do 100 to get the cost down lower.

If your not familier with CNC, it is very costly to do a small run as setup, tooling, and programming cost are generally higher than the actual run time on the machine. It might take 5 hours to set up and 1 hour to run, and this is the reason why we decided to go to 100. On this ILPR there are several tools that need to be purchased just for this job, special reamers, taps, and grooving tools. So it is best to go with higher quantity.

I have a nice working relationship with that machine shop, and they are willing to make 100 and drop ship a few dozen every month or so. This way I don't have to dish out a few thousand at once.

warpedmephisto

03-31-2005, 01:50 PM

Gotcha. Yeah, I'm going to be getting into CNC pretty soon here so I will find out first hand about all the setup required.

JaKaL

03-31-2005, 09:15 PM

Hey warped,

A suggestion for your first CNC project...

Blade triggers?

warpedmephisto

03-31-2005, 11:11 PM

Heh, I was actually looking at that tonight. I was looking at what all materials, styles, etc. to perhaps produce them out of when I get the chance. Looks like either Aluminum or Delrin will be the way to go. Garolite G-10 seems to be just too hard on machines for me to start doing that. What do you think?

bullschmidt2k3

03-31-2005, 11:35 PM

I'm already making delrin triggers in shop class, but it's with a manual mill , so they wouldn't be nearly as high of quality. CNC ones would be way nicer...

you should make the out of black delrin with magnets

JaKaL

03-31-2005, 11:55 PM

Well, aluminum is always a good way to go with pb equipment, but I can see the merits in a delrin trigger, too. If you ARE going to produce them just make sure to do a flat blade style, i.e. Eclipse E-blade style. Nice and wide, I hate all these tiny ass lil' triggers on timmies and crap. They're all too small and thin for my big manly man hands.

Edwin

04-01-2005, 07:33 AM

Ummm, hijackers!!!!

Start a new thread if you want to discuss something other than the topic at hand!!!

TheTramp

04-01-2005, 10:15 AM

This just keeps happening to you. ;)

JaKaL

04-01-2005, 08:50 PM

Sorry edwin, I didn't mean to offend.

These LPR's are great looking, especially for someone trying to maintain a "stock" look - if I had something special like an Addicted I'd probably purchase one. You're one hell of an innovator, and you're coming up with some great products.
You're also doing so much for the Tribe. Keep up the good work, man, I love all of you contributions.

Edwin

04-01-2005, 09:40 PM

No problem just keeping you guys in line :)

Edwin

04-14-2005, 07:48 PM

Otay I got a whole bunch of TILPRs in. I just need to polish the front a little and send them to ano. I will put a link on my site if you want to pre-order!!!

I modified it a little to give more volume to the LP!!!!

Here is a vid of it in action. It is only 15 frames a second so it is hard to see the jump, but I am telling you it has hardly any drop-off. Also I was a bit hard to hold and show the LP gauge, shoot, and hold the marker

Please click and save to your computer don't try running from the sever. >2Megs

http://www.tribal-paintball.com/edwin247/tilpr1.mov

bakerboy4679

04-14-2005, 07:52 PM

lookin good! are they on your site now?

:birthday: -- exchange "birthday" with, "testing and success"

Edwin

04-14-2005, 07:55 PM

Umm not yet.

Edwin

04-14-2005, 08:32 PM

Ummm, it is up!!!!

Theguy

04-20-2005, 03:53 PM

meep meep, zip bang

*edit* done.

Theguy

04-20-2005, 11:20 PM

Theguy

04-20-2005, 11:23 PM

ok, now I can finally ask ym questions. Does that port still need to be tapped for this? Any estimates when the first batch will be ready to go out?

Edwin

04-21-2005, 07:51 AM

Yes the little AOC vent needs to be taped and sealed with a loctite grub screw. I will be adding a 4-40 tap and drill to my site soon for people who don't want to run down to home depot to get a set.

If you want an un-anodized one I can ship ASAP. For the Ano-ed ones I am still a couple weeks off. I need to finish polishing them this week so I can mail them Monday to the Ano Shop.

Theguy

04-21-2005, 02:04 PM

wait, which vent are we talking about?Its that little hole near the front where the AOC normally sends the LP air to the solenoid right? How does the air get to the noid then?

Edwin

04-21-2005, 03:55 PM

LP is done internally.

The hole that needs to be plugged is the small hole that is right under the ASA Adapter. I will take some pics later tonight to show how it is done.

~kaos~

04-22-2005, 10:26 AM

wait, which vent are we talking about?Its that little hole near the front where the AOC normally sends the LP air to the solenoid right? How does the air get to the noid then?
NO..... you must remove your vert ASA to see this hole. It is hidden beneath the ASA. I believe Andy calls it an Atmospheric vent hole. I actually plugged one during some testing with teflon tape & it sealed just fine.... although I DO NOT recommend doing so as a permanent fix.

TheTramp

04-22-2005, 10:31 AM

I wonder if a tight fitting rubber plug with a "cap" would work. It should be held in place by the vert adaptor itself.

warpedmephisto

04-22-2005, 10:53 AM

Yep, that would work. I have used hot glue and RTV silicone sealant in the past. Both work just fine.

Edwin

04-22-2005, 11:04 AM

I guess other method will work fine. It will only have low pressure there anyway. What ever you set your LP to that will be the pressure at that hole.

usagi_tetsu

04-22-2005, 12:28 PM

I've successfully plugged that hole with a wad of teflon tape. However, finding the proper plug screw or something similar would definitely be much better.

Edwin

04-23-2005, 08:07 PM

Shifty and Kaos just ordered a un-anodized TILPR, so maybe they will give a little feedback when they get them installed and tested.

Theguy

04-24-2005, 09:26 AM

does this LPR shift around at all like the AOC did? Cause I may have to order a new ASA screw. MY AOC did a number on mine since i got the Mini installed.

Edwin

04-24-2005, 10:19 AM

The TILPR is one solid piece so the threads on the front of the marker holds it in place, not the ASA screw. So if the top of your ASA screw is messed up, you can just file it down because it isn't needed any more.

If you want a ASA screw from me, just get the cheaper one.

Theguy

04-24-2005, 07:52 PM

do you have any clue how fast it recharges as compared to the AOC?

Edwin

04-24-2005, 08:06 PM

The recharge is very fast. Since AOCs vary so much I would say it is better in most cases, but some AOC work pretty darn good. They just suck at volume and adjustability.

Check out the video I posted a few back.

The recharge is great, and the drop-off is minimum. When I have it set to 90psi, I get about a 5psi drop between shots, and during rapid fire it doesn't drop much more than that. (It is pretty hard to measure drop on a small gauge or any gauge for that matter. The best way is a setup like Have Blues, but I don't have that system)

If you look at my products webpage, and notice the space between the two 015 orings, you can see how much volume I add to the Marker. A stock AOC has only a small space between the AOC cap and the AOC plunger that constitutes its volume.

Hopefully Kaos or Shifty can give some un-biased feedback when they get there TILPR in the mail this week.

Theguy

04-25-2005, 09:27 AM

great, that sounds awesome. With my mini-morlock installed i was messing around and hitting 25 bps with it. It kept skipping shots because there wasn't enough low pressure volume left to push the ram all the way forward in the given amount of dwell. The AOC just couldn't keep up. Plus it bent the crap out of my ASA screw.

This sounds like an awesome piece of equipment. I also have never noticed that little hole you mentioned until I took my ASA off today. However I have an airsmith local to me. I'm gonna have that hole plugged, as well as have my BBE holes drilled and tapped fro covers at the same time. Since KP is within walking distance.

Theguy

05-04-2005, 04:05 PM

you get those back from anno yet?

Edwin

05-04-2005, 04:14 PM

Nope, I was hoping to see them when I came back from Montana, but they were not here.

I spoke with my Ano Guy today, and he was trying to run them yesterday, but my order got pushed back a day. He did run a few test items, and said they came out nice. He also said he was going to run them tomorrow, but you know how business goes........tomorrow could be another week.

Theguy

05-04-2005, 07:39 PM

but you know how business goes........tomorrow could be another week.

yeah, or if your dealing with Doc Nickel, sending them out at 7 tonight, could really mean, I'll throw it on a shelf and send it out in a month or so.

Edwin

05-11-2005, 01:04 PM

ANO COMPLETE!!!

I should be able to ship Monday, if you get the orders in before Friday.

Thanks,
Edwin

http://www.tribal-paintball.com/edwin247/ano_complete.jpg

warpedmephisto

05-11-2005, 02:58 PM

Wow, that is a ton of product sitting there, Edwin. Looks great!

Edwin

05-11-2005, 03:14 PM

Yeah I sure hope they sell, as I have bills, bills, bills..........
Lots of people said they will buy, so I hope they come through....... :Nevous2:

I really need to sell quite a few to cover my cost.....

warpedmephisto

05-11-2005, 03:32 PM

I bet man... Thats one of the reasons why I've never been able to get into production like that. I never have the up front cash to push an idea into production. Hopefully my CNC mill will let me scoot a little farther into the production field though.

TheTramp

05-12-2005, 08:03 AM

Has there been any significant changes in these from the original run that had the small problem?

Edwin

05-12-2005, 08:35 AM

The only differences between the production run and the titanium prototype run are:

1. Increased LP Volume (I removed excess aluminum that was not needed)
2. Aluminum not Titanium
3. Anodized for surface strength/hardess
4. Colored to match Tribals better
5. Stock 2-prong removal
6. Bright dip before anodizing to give a better internal smoothness and decrease drop-off due to sticky oring seal on the piston (It does seem better than the prototype)

I think that is it!!!!

Edwin

05-12-2005, 08:39 AM

FYI --- Bright dip is a electro-chemical process that smooths the surface of the aluminum. They call it bright dip because it is for of polishing of the surface.

TheTramp

05-12-2005, 08:40 AM

I'm sorry, I didn't explain fully. I ment between the first run of LPRCs and this run.

Edwin

05-12-2005, 08:57 AM

Well, you posted on the TILPR thread not the LPRC.

As for the differences:
They are basically the same except:
1. Polished internal bore (slicker for the piston = less drop off)
2. Bright Dip (Same as #1)
3. Colors to Match Tribals
4. Ano for surface hardness
Pretty much exactly the same as the TILPR, but the volume wasn't effected by the new run. LPRC volume stayed the same as my first offering.....

TheTramp

05-12-2005, 10:51 AM

OK, thanks.

Theguy

05-12-2005, 02:22 PM

shipping Monday....

/me does the happy dance.

Edwin

05-13-2005, 08:56 PM

Here is a nice little pic of the TILPRs!!!

http://www.tribal-paintball.com/c_tilpr.jpg

can'tthink of1

05-13-2005, 09:13 PM

Those look very nice edwin. I'm actually thinking about maybe having you mod one of those if I do a mini project ever (its becoming more unlikely, but whatever).

Do you have actual figures how the Volume of the lprc and this tilpr differ?

Theguy

05-13-2005, 10:33 PM

Volume specs were further back in this thread. I think it was 2.somethingx the volume of the standard AOC.

can'tthink of1

05-13-2005, 10:43 PM

Oh yeah.. gah, I forget this stuff. I'll stick with a custom lprc if I do the mini tribal.

Edwin

05-14-2005, 06:21 PM

It is definately more than I calculated on one of my earlier posts as I reduced the OD of the aluminum between the two orings which increases the volume.

I think it performs really well, even better than I expected!!! Once I get a few out and tested, maybe they will post.

Right now Shifty has one un-anodized one, and will be receiving an anodized one here in the next couple days. Kaos also has an un-anozided one too.

But that is it.......I sure hope sales improve. :(

shiftycastro

05-14-2005, 07:08 PM

Well,...... I have tested the TILPR and it works very good. It has a very fast recharge on the lpr side of it.
Its well worth the money if have the extra to spend on it.

Theguy

05-16-2005, 09:59 PM

awesome, what BPS have you tested it up to?

shiftycastro

05-17-2005, 05:25 AM

i have it in the stock board up to 13 bps .....seems to be working just fine

Theguy

05-17-2005, 08:57 AM

ahhh, well then.

If Edwin sent them out yesterday like he said he would, then I'll test mine up to about 30 in a few days.

Edwin

05-17-2005, 09:37 AM

Ummm, I did send some stuff out yesterday, but I forget everyone's name, since s/n rarely match real names. So I am not sure if yours went!!!

I didn't want to post about bps and the TILPR because it would be biased information. First of all your never going to get to 30bps with a Tribal, and if you can it won't be my TILPR that is causing you problems. I will be the noid, and or the HPR. I am very confident that my TILPR will keep up with a Tribal without problems. Tribals will peak out at 22-24 bps, and absolute max at 26, but I doubt there are many Tribals that are tuned well enough for 26.

Your HPR is the key to high BPS, it must be able to keep up with pressure and volume to sustain a high BPS.

The other problem is how to measure if your marker is keeping up? Do you have a chrono that can measure FPS at 22bps? That is where you will know if your marker can sustain 22-30bps.

Eitherway I am very confident, and I am looking forward to your test results. I should have a Warlord Tribal setup with a TILPR in the next week or so. I will post some information when my pzooka is complete!!! :)

Theguy

05-17-2005, 03:29 PM

Well I have the mini-morlock set up on my Tribal. So I can adjust the BPS.

Last time I was messing around with it and I accidentally changed the wrong bank setting, and set my dwell at 2 instead of the firing mode. That was interesting to say the least.

The way I test drop-off from the HPR is on the field. If i fire a string and the shots dro, then i have a problem. Right now I have a Macdev Gladiator, which from looking at Haveblue's Dynotests and others testimony, should be able to keep up pretty well.

bakerboy4679

05-26-2005, 11:58 AM

Hey Edwin,

On your site, you said your accepting pre-orders on your TILPR's. Does this mean that you dont have them in stock right now? I thought you just got a batch in, annoed..?

Anyway, hopefully(repeat, hopefully) i'll be buying one from you in the next month few days/weeks. I have some stuff to take care of, but then i'll be getting one.
I think I'll go w/ the clear/silver one, just to go w/ my present color scheme.

Thanks, just a heads up is all
~Andrew

Edwin

05-26-2005, 03:01 PM

Yep they are instock.

:doh: I need to fix that.....I am such a freaking idiot!!! :doh:

Edwin

05-26-2005, 03:08 PM

FIXED!!! Thanks for the "heads-up"

That is what everyone was talking about....I totally forgot I put that note on the website. I guess I should read my text too!!!

jeremy.sears

05-26-2005, 03:19 PM

must be old age...

Edwin

05-26-2005, 03:23 PM

Haha, nope. Just Stupidity....Louisiana's Education system is in the toilet.

Ebonics Translation:
Damn, ma bitch!! In da state of Neworlans they don't be learnin you nuthin.

jeremy.sears

05-26-2005, 03:43 PM

that explains alot with students I have from louisiana roflmao

B2KtinkerR

06-20-2005, 03:30 PM

sorry for the newb reply but

why not have the LPR be external so there is more volume?

Edwin

06-20-2005, 03:52 PM

Please see this thread:

http://www.tribal-paintball.com/tog/showthread.php?t=144

Edwin

08-04-2005, 03:59 PM

Hmmm, here is a piece of info about the TILPR that I never even thought about.

The weight of a complete TILPR is 0.8 oz!!!

I don't have an AOC here, but I bet it is actually lighter than the stock config.

bakerboy4679

08-04-2005, 05:19 PM

Groovy.. :ThumbsU3:

What next Edwin? What next?

Edwin

08-05-2005, 08:24 AM

I have about 3-4 projects on the burners right now, but nothing released......

Theguy

08-05-2005, 11:25 AM

I have about 3-4 projects on the burners right now, but nothing released......

I'm gonna take a wild guess.....

Is one an anti-chop bolt?

Edwin

08-05-2005, 11:35 AM

Ok 5 projects!!! :)

I have been thinking of ways to reduce the pressure on the ball. Delrin bolt with rubber tip, and a few other ideas, but that is on the back, back burner.

bakerboy4679

08-05-2005, 12:07 PM

Aight well we'll be waiting?

JaKaL

08-05-2005, 11:42 PM

ummm...

how about some sort of high-flow valve - seeing as how it's apparently EXTREMELY hard to find one...

Theguy

08-06-2005, 04:28 AM

a new bolt.....

ribbed for her pleasure.

OSOK8541

06-12-2006, 06:04 PM

ANO COMPLETE!!!

I should be able to ship Monday, if you get the orders in before Friday.

Thanks,
Edwin

http://www.tribal-paintball.com/edwin247/ano_complete.jpg

Edwin,

I just bought a butchered Tribal BBT. Looking for upgrading it. Would like to discuss purchasing a set for my marker.

OSOK