How should I go about...

[can'tthink of1]

...making a totally milled mini tribal?

Right now, I've got 2 choices.
1. Take my 2.2 Twister, and mini it, and get all the "twister" grooves out, hack up the top tube and mill some metal off around the barrel threads (very little, but some can ba milled off I think)
Pros
-extensive cnc milling is un-needed (less chance of screwing something up)
-Shorter build time
-Already have the twister body
-Already very light, very little left to mill

Cons
-Top tube milling greatly restricted because its been milled so much stock
-hacking up a perfectly good twister

2. Buy a abused 2.2 bbt or mephy and work work andy extensively to create a milling plan to mill the body down to whatever we see fit. Mini it, and

Pros
-Possibly cheaper starting price for a stock bbt or mephy
-More possibilities for custom milling
-taking an abused marker and turning it into a working/better one
-Just overally more "custom" and nothing else like it

Cons
-LONG assed build time
-nearly completely on dependent on Andy for the milling
-possibly really abused and impossible to make work

Now, I'm going for something thats going to be a really small, light, great performing, and with little kick, just a custom tribal really.

For the top tube, I'm realyl worried that the twister milling restricts any sort of custom milling. Granted, I have an idea for a custom bolt, based off of edwin's bolts, where you use a ball detent for the rear detent, and so you could have a custom anno'd detent hanging out the back of my marker, which would be cool

Then for the lpr, edwin said he might do a run of custom lprc's.

The only thing I'm worried about is
a. destroying up a perfectly good body
b. multi-year build time
c. more kick due to the possibly increased hpr pressure from a smaller area for the hp air
d. not being custom, and just ending up like something someone else has done.

So yeah, I'm not really sure what to do... Any suggestions guys? This will be really dependent on Andy and Edwin's help, but I hope we could create something close to the perfect tribal :cool:

[Edwin]

1. If your going to mess up a Tribal, try to mess up one that is already beat up.
2. Convert a Stock HPR to a Gas-Thru Grip like I did for two of my markers.
3. Rocket Valve is the only valve to use (Built-in Spring)
4. I am still very concerned about removing the groove in a twister as I don't think there is enough metal left after the grooves are removed. Especially by the threads.
5. Since you will be working with Andy's CNC mini-mill, your possibilities are endless with a BBT or Mephy.

[can'tthink of1]

1. Yeah, I'd rather get a beat up one, but not everything goes my way.
2. Gas thru, I don't know about that. I'll be running a preset tank so thats not an option. If anything, I might get an AKA 2liter to use, and maybe an extention, which would add a bit of hp air I'd think.
3. Yup, I'll be getting a rocket valve to go along with a custom lprc from you :D
4. The metal around the barrel threads is like along the bottom of threads, where the flat part cuts in and the twister milling starts.
As for the structural concern, I wouldn't be milling any more but the little groves off. I don't think the grooves are what keep the twister from blowing up.
5. Yeah, but I don't know how to program the CNC, so I'm like entirely dependant on if Andy wants to do a custom tribal. It would also take a really long time, and yeah... But yeah, It would be more custom that way, and possibly more sexy and all that jazz.

Now edwin, for a bolt, what do you think about my idea of using something like a detent for the marker? It could shorten your bolts by 1" atleast I'd think, and would cool to watch a bight colored thing on the bolt moving back and forth really quick as I'm ripping away.

[Edwin]

Yeah that is a great idea. I think a detent would work nice!!! I never thought of that....they would be bad for sales as it adds $15 to the cost, but for a custom it is perfect, if they are strong enough to hold the pin in place. A stock steel ball would be better but doesn't look as nice as others.

I had another idea....I was thinking to put the pin detent in the front of the bolt. You know, come through the large air hole in the front. It wouldn't be the best for flow, but it still would be better than some of the stock Tribal bolts. Plus all you would need is 1/8" after the bolt pin. This would be the absolute smallest bolt for a tribal.

[Theguy]

i agree with Edwin, go with the abused gun.


OH OH, and cut gills in the top tube in the back.

[can'tthink of1]

Edwin for the bolt with the marker detent, you could anno it to match the rest of the the marker, how cool would that be.

As for making the worlds smallest tribal bolt, I was thinking of that too, you're still going to need a small enough "wall" in the back to the bolt to keep the pull pin from breaking apart the entire bolt, so I was thinking that the wall that would be there for a marker detent would be just as small, and you'd have the cool colored detent going back and forth. Also, I'm not entirely sure how such impeedments like say a detent in the air flow path would really affect the flow that much.

Also for a custom bolt, if you've ever looked at recent timmy's the back of the bolt is sometimes cut to match the milling on that timmy. So like a back of a bolt could be like ==|> or something. I was thinking about cutting down the bolt like that, and using a ball detent because it would probably be coolest.

And fuck no I'm not doing gills, this is a marker, not a fish.

As for finding an abused tribal, we'll see. It all really depends on is Andy is willing to spend the load of time programing the cnc.

[Edwin]

I think the only problem with the detent is that you cannot re-ano a detent. I believe the detents are manufactured in a way that the spring and the ball is inserted into the housing then it is crimped to keep the ball from coming out.

You would actually have to manufacture a detent custom, if you wanted it a custom ano.


The small amount behind the pull pin for the smallest tribal bolt would be 1/8" as I stated above. I think it can be done, but I have other things on my plate right now, so I don't have time to try!!!

[can'tthink of1]

There are some rebuildable detents out on the market that you can take them apart.

Oh, I missed the 1/8" thing, my bad. And that would just be enough for a detent too. But that mini bolt would be pretty nifty. I'm wondering how much it would actually obstruct the airflow if you made the whole detent small enough. And its not like this project is starting anytime soon, so we still have plenty of time.

[Edwin]

I need to look at the bolt and see how much room I would have. I would make the detent where it doesn't obstruct any air flow, what I was worried about is turbulance due to irregular air flow.

[ME262]

its quite simple really, drill for the detent into the front, install dentent, press in delrin "plug" , pin plug, then drill and machine air passage into plug/bolt.

ill show you i made one like that on one ive done. i just gotta find it........

[goose]

something you might want to think about instead of a detent to hold the pin is the way a diablo sabotage bolt is built

it has a small hole like 1/8 or smaller coming in from the side.

in that hole is a really hard piece of rubber just like a cold roll pin but made or solid hard rubber. maybee it is a type of urethane

this actually holds the pin quite well...in fact to the point i usually could not grab it with bare figgers and pull it out... i had to use a rubber grippie and really give it some umph

[can'tthink of1]

I started looking back into this, I'm not sure wtf is going to happen..

Edwin, you expressed concern about getting rid of the grooves of a twister, and in this thread http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=665150 the guy said he had no problems.

If there are indeed no problems then that leaves that possibility open.

So far it I'm going to just use a beat up tribal and turn it into something spectacular with lots of help from edwin and andy.

Now I'm tossing up ideas for some kickass original milling, and stuff like that. If andy would be up for a totally custom milled tribal based off of a mephy or bbt, that would be awesome, but I'm afraid that what the final product end up as would have been possible to to just use a twister as a base, and just smooth and mill parts of it.

Right now, I'm not really sure what to do, nor do I have the money. But what I'm tossing up is what parts will be a part of it. I'm thinking like a 2liter, stiffi, killa detent, then some awesome custom stuff from edwin consisting of a custom lprc, and a custom bolt. But for how the body is going to turn up, I'm not sure what's going to happen. Also, if edwin or andy don't come through with some parts, the entire project could be a waste, which bugs me because I don't like relying on other people for stuff, but just custom bolts, and so forth are over my head.

[shiftycastro]

this is the key word "custom"

because of that you will have to depend on alot of people...... look what i did with the chroming of 2 guns. i had to depend on fbm, not counting on chaos install and all that stuff that will get done to it.

you are talking extensive milling and mods..... which all comes down to the almighty dollar. if you dont have that type of cash,..... your best bet is to put that project on the back burner.
do something within your reach,.. the way i do my stuff is i have patience and i have the cash to back my play.

[can'tthink of1]

You're absolutly right shifty. I've actually taken that into consideration. I figure since Andy is actualy a local fellow, this can go somewhat faster than other people's projects. I'm not in some huge race to finish it either. I know its going to take awhile to finish it, so right now I'm looking into what I can do marker wise untill it is done.

One worry I've had is that if say I go with my twister project, as soon as I smooth out and mill the stuff, I will need to get it to anno asap to keep it from pitting and so on. Then there is the possibility if Andy would be up for a totally custom milled tribal, but then thinking about it, it would just end up being a smoothed out twister anyways, but it does leave options open for totally custom milling designs.

I'm going for really small, light, fast, accurate, and just basically awesome, which the twister leaves minimal work left in lightening it. But the twister milling also restricts what custom milling could be done.

Right now, I'm just worried about getting out and playing agian. The mini project is just going to be mine/andy's/edwin's little colaberation which I hope will turn into the best tribal ever.

Wow, I just noticed I jumped around with my thoughts, sorry.

[frontline74]

Thats nifty and all, but why doesn't someone throw the bolt pin on a lathe and cut a small recess into the pin so that when you pull the pin you don't have to pull the pin all the way out to remove the bolt out the bolt

Copying the aka lightning bolt for vikings and excals in a sense..

and viola..no more lost bolt pins..

[TheTramp]

Or mill the bolt pin slot all the way to the back of the gun so the pin dosen't have to be completely removed.

[Edwin]

its quite simple really, drill for the detent into the front, install dentent, press in delrin "plug" , pin plug, then drill and machine air passage into plug/bolt.

ill show you i made one like that on one ive done. i just gotta find it........

Rich, thanks for the idea. I never though of doing it that way. Post the pic if you find it.

[Edwin]

Thats nifty and all, but why doesn't someone throw the bolt pin on a lathe and cut a small recess into the pin so that when you pull the pin you don't have to pull the pin all the way out to remove the bolt out the bolt

Copying the aka lightning bolt for vikings and excals in a sense..

and viola..no more lost bolt pins..

Tramps idea would be the easiest. But I don't have a problem with the bolt pin---I don't take it out a lot, and I never lost one yet. I also have about 50 extra anyways.