Rocket Valve Setup

[B2KtinkerR]

Hello my Tribal cousins

just curious to know how you guys have setup your Rocket Valve

the intructions for the B2K and Tribal are not on the Maddman site anymore and im hoping to get insight

[Edwin]

It is not that complicated. The latest version of rocket valves for Tribals were pre-set and all you had to do is remove the stock valve and valve spring and insert the rocket valve.

Older and other versions of rocket valves had multiple springs and longer shafts that had to be cut to fit.

Kaos probably has more information as he was testing Rocket Valves for Mike at Maddman

[~kaos~]

Yep.... I was there from the begining testing protos. I even eventually wrote up & shot the pics of the original "how to" install a rocket valve. What do you need to know?

[B2KtinkerR]

well my rocket is the older one and didnt come with different springs,


well how do you setup older Rocket valves?
i matched the length of the stem to the stock valve.

is it ok if i cut the spring to match the stiffness im used to?

hey with the newer Rocket valves would they work in B2Ks also or is it now a tribal only valve?

[Edwin]

You need to match the length of the stem to the lenght of the stock valve when assembled.

No do not mess with the cone sping as it is custom designed with "closed" ends on the top and bottom to allow the spring to sit flat on the valve and the plastic valve retainer screw.

The only way to get different spring constants is to use different gauge wire. You can try to email Mike and Maddy at Madmann, and ask if he has a spring kit with different softer spring rates.

[B2KtinkerR]

yeah i got the length matched up ok enough

but its pretty short and the valve spring is pretty tight


So what HPR Psi does this valve run and how many shots does it get?
and what is the LPR psi running?

i know my gun will be different but the information does help

thanks for the help

[Edwin]

It all depends on your setup, but I can run as low as 50-60 Lp and 150 Hp with my twister on my site.

[B2KtinkerR]

ok if i match up the stem length with my stock valve and the rocket valves spring is very heavy now, will i need to find a lighter one(proablably from Maddman)

or will it be fine

or could i cut it????

[Edwin]

My stock spring is just fine!!!

I don't recommend cutting the spring

[B2KtinkerR]

cool gotcha, whatever happens DO NOT CUT SPRING

oh i hope maddman gets back to me and has a lighter spring

[~kaos~]

Yeah, cutting the spring is the last thing you wanna do. Back when we first were testing the protos we used to use all kinds of springs just to see what it would work like. That's how they came up with the idea to include 2 springs in the later models (stiff & light). I seem to remember clipping a pen spring and using it, if you're into tinkering you might give it a try. I believe my findings were that the spring was a little light and didn't help the "cone" seal.... but that was with the original hard black material, the clear cones are made of a much softer material and don't seem to have that prob.

[B2KtinkerR]

know where i might find one of these light rocket springs?
is there any for the tribal?

BTW Maddman is up for sale so no more springs out there

[B2KtinkerR]

Ok well i finally shot it with a Chrono

280ish FPS, 220 psi, LPR 52,Dwell 10-12

not too impressed, my Zenitram operated from the 180 to 200 range

i will try with a lower dwell when i get an adjustable dwell board on there



if you guys have any isight please feel free to share

[~kaos~]

Just to give you an idea what's possible.... while tinkering with the original protos we got them to run fine on 160 psi input, and that was on a Cocker.
I've got one Rocket set-up with a light spring I had left over from long ago, but it's up in K.C. & I'm down here in Texas...... I'm heading up next weekend for some stuff I'll try and grab it & get it into one of my markers for a test ride.

[B2KtinkerR]

oh and with a piston 12.90 of and a hammer 14.85g of my LPR was 56ish psi

the stock hammer is 26.60g with a newer piston of 13.50g and LPR was 52ish psi


pretty easy to open it seems

[B2KtinkerR]

oh and this is what someone said in PBN, is it true?

Yea....the whole efficiency gig with the Rocket valve is that you are banking in hopes that the valve is open too soon and too long. Hence why you start out with the stock valve length and slowly shorten the thing untill you see a decrease in performance (then you are supposed to file down a new stem to the previous length). In cockers they literally can drop input pressures by 300psi, that was the results my friend and I got when I installed it in his classic autococker.

When the valve stem is the stock length, I doubt you will get a significant increase in performance (if you leave all else the same). I'm banking that the decrease in the dwell will help minimized valve float and increase my efficiency, but for true results I'm going to have to start filing down the valve stem.

[~kaos~]

That's pretty much it for the most part. At one point I wrote up a detailed "how to" Rocket install with pics & everything. It included several valve stem measurements, valve open/gap measurements and compared the settings operating psi to efficency & performance. It was housed on MSN's HomePages, when that went down 5-6 years ago it was pretty much gone for good. I did notice somewhere that someone had saved a portion of it and had it posted somewhere..... but it was just some of the basics and it wasn't more than a paragraph or so. My original data was 3-4 pages.

[B2KtinkerR]

so i should be shortening my valve stem untill i see low fps, hummmmmmm

eh too much work, ill wait for someone to do it first hahahahaah

[~kaos~]

so i should be shortening my valve stem untill i see low fps, hummmmmmm
eh too much work, ill wait for someone to do it first hahahahaah
Hahaha..... I went thru a scuba tank & (2) 88's when I was checking settings & efficency when we were testing the protos. Imagine how many times I got to remove the valve from my Cocker.

[B2KtinkerR]

ah so how did you test and tune your rocket valve and what were the resutls?

also how light did your springing end up?

[~kaos~]

The early testing was nothing more than trial & error. I'm not sure how many players/builders were testing at that time but there were 3 of us that kept in touch regularly via e-mail and swapped data & findings. We found that going ultra LP (160psi input) wasn't very efficent in the long run as it used more gas. Basicly what were found out was that it was advantagous to have a break-in period where we ran the input @ 220-240 for 3-5 cases of paint. After that we dropped the input to the 190-205 range. That psi range seemed to give good overall performance, efficency & consistancy. The firmer spring turned out to be best for the application. I think one of the testers found a really light "pen" spring and claims he got as low as 140psi input as was still able to get it to operate. However when we asked him if he would go to his local pb shop to have it varified we never heard back...... ;)

[B2KtinkerR]

ah so what was the shot count and LPR psi

[~kaos~]

I was able to get my lpr down to 36psi, I had modded a stock ram with some Humphrey QV's..... quite a trick set-up 5 years ago. In fack I still have one (modded ram) in an old gear box, i'll get a pic of it when I pick up my stuff later this week. The shot count was horrible.... something like 600-650 on a 68/3k tank.
On the efficent end of things we got it up around 1000-1100 shots on a 68/3k. I ran my lpr @ 42/43psi, hpr @ 195psi, yellow nelson hammer spring & polished hammer. And my velocity adjustment was "flush" with the body (no inner threads showing). I was shooting high 280's with a few lo 290's

[B2KtinkerR]

wow, i wonder why my HPR PSI is higher than my other valves, and why the same valve is lower in your tribals?

[~kaos~]

*lol* read carefully..... we have been talking about the 'original' testing. The first Rocket valves were for COCKERS. "Humphrey QV on a ram 5-years ago", "velocity adjuster flush with body"....you won't find that on a Tribal. I'm a long time Cocker-freak.
As for the Tribals, let me see..... LPR around 70psi, input 185-200psi, about 1000 shots. As for going Ultra LP I think Andy and possibly Rich (me262) did some stuff on a Tribal. Maybe even Justin.

[warpedmephisto]

I was always a fan of super low LP pressure, but I always just let the HP run at what it wants to according to velocity. On my old Mephisto (late 2001 early 2002) I was running at 35 psi on the LPR and 220 on the HPR. I never really did pay attention to the efficiency, but I know it wasn't bad at all. The kicker is that the Mephisto was totally stock mechanically besides a Shocktech LPR, Messiah HPR, some polished internals and tuning. See why I've never had beef with the stock aluminum bolts? :)

[B2KtinkerR]

*lol* read carefully..... we have been talking about the 'original' testing. The first Rocket valves were for COCKERS.
aye cen reed
It all depends on your setup, but I can run as low as 50-60 Lp and 150 Hp with my twister on my site.

[Edwin]

I like a low HP setting as that is where most of your efficency is (dwell dependant).

Very low LP will help with less ball breaks, but so will a good loader.

[bakerboy4679]

so will a good loader.

My bbt had stock detents set on Auto-response with a Reloader B and never chopped one. it double, triple and even sometimes quadruple shot, but still NO breaks.

It was/is completely stock, only tuned by Andy.
I was very impressed.